modifing existing cctv system

[way2evil 0]

I have an existing system with 10 cameras. It was installed by my alarm guy. He ended up putting in a tempest system which i hate and the quality on the cameras is overall crap. I have attached some pictures, one of them is the overall "diagram" of the system and the other is some sample shots to see what i am looking at now. Also, I would appreciate it if someone could recommend some good cameras to watch over my cars and a good DVR that I can add hard drives to for additional storage. The DVR would need to stream across a network and the internet.

[way2evil 0]

three more attachments

[scorpion 0]

Camera one.

 

This appears to be a night time video.

 

This appears to be a standard packaged deal camera that you find in 90% of "surveillance kits".

 

I will guess at the specs of the camera. 1/4 3.8, or a 4mm lens bullet with 30 feet of IR.

 

It appears in the video that you are watching an area that is beyond the reach of the 30 foot throw of IR.

 

Please note that the IR is a ramp. Highest at 0 feet ramped down to lowest illumination at 30 feet.

 

You will need to watch an area that is 15 feet from the mount of the camera, or you will need to move the camera closer to the area that you are watching, or order a camera with a longer IR throw.

[scorpion 0]

Camera two appears to be the same specs as camera one.

 

There is some lighting that is interfering with the camera. The camera is seeing some illumination, and the photo cell has turned off the IR. The camera is only giving you a video shot of the available light from a lamp of some sort.

 

You will need to shield the photo cell so that it sees darkness, and activates the IR so that you can see more detail in the video, or you will need to add more lights.

[scorpion 0]

What is wrong with the video from camera 3 daytime?

 

I like it, and I would consider it a good shot.

 

The wide angle lens still looks good in the depth of the shot!

 

 

CAMERA 3 NIGHTTIME

 

The "cart" is about 20 feet from the camera. If this is a 30 foot IR camera then you are already outside of the range of the IR illuminators.

 

I can see why this video is blacked out. Is there any light source in the backyard? It does not appear so.

 

How far is it from where the camera is mounted to the back fence line?

[scorpion 0]

CAMERA 2 NIGHTTIME

 

There is no daytime shot so i cannot render an opinion. I will assume that the camera specs are the same as camera 1, and 3.

 

I will assume that the same video problems are the same as mentioned.

[scorpion 0]

Google Earth

 

My opinion, and my opinion only. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

Camer #5 Bad position. It is looking straight down. You get a nice shot of someone's head. If you angle it up some then you get head lights right in to the camera when someone pulls up.

 

You will need at least a 60 foot IR throw camera. This is the minimum, and you may need more to illuminate the area.

 

_________________________________________________________

 

Camera 3

 

Excellant mount!

 

Good straight out shot!! I like where this camera is mounted!

 

You may want two cameras for this shot. One camera that is wide angle to see periphereal area, and another camera with a higher mm lens to catch facial recognition when they pass in front of the camera.

Edited January 28, 2008 by Guest

[scorpion 0]

On the google earth shot

 

Is there any camera that is watching an area about 15 to 20 feet from where the camera is mounted?

 

It appears that most of the cameras are looking deep, and far from where the cameras are mounted.

 

If you are not aware of it I will mention it for at least the viewers of this post.

 

Wide angle cameras are designed for far left, and far right video, or in other words to give you a wide shot. Distance is sacrificed. Anything in the distance will look even farther away in the video then in reality. Look at the cart in the picture. It is actually closer in real life then what the picture is showing. Look at the fence line. You will notice a slight curverature in the video shot.

 

 

A 6mm lens will not give you far left, and far right views, but it does not have the "distortion" that you see with wide angle lens.

 

For facial recognition you will need a higher mm lens to get up close and personal. Think of the TV news caster on TV. Basically they are just "talking heads", and no body!

[scorpion 0]

OK! Here is where you test me.

 

How close was I on the camera specs??

 

How close was I on distances?

 

How would you rate my overall "opinion" of your system?

 

How would you rate my "opinions" to modify your setup?

 

Please remember that I have never been to your house, and I do not see what you see.

 

Anybody that tells you they are an expert, and can give you a 100% system design base on a google shot needs to be taken with a grain of salt!!

 

How did I do?

[zmxtech 0]

Sorry to "see" your system sucks....

 

this is where I make my money when amateurs/alarm guys/plumbers install rubbish for $99.99 with steak knives....

 

you can fix it by upgrading you cameras and as the other guys say putting them in the right places

 

 

z

[Rebco 0]

I hope you didn't pay him for this! Wow this system really sucks. Honestly you are probably going to pay for a full system again. This is what i tell people "it is cheaper to do it right the first time". or it will cost you double. I see it alot around here IT, Alarm, Cable & Dish installers guys turning into camera installers, without one once of knowledge of system design or even camera specs & functions. Hope you can convince someone (CCTV Guy) in your area to fix that system. Good Luck

[Scruit 0]

I'm not an expert, just a home user..

 

Camera 1: Is that condensation? Dirt on the lens? What kind of camera? Looks like it could be a camera with IRs behind the same glass lens as the camera itself, and the picture is blurry from condensation / smudged glass / reflecting IR back.

 

Camera 2: Same as camera 1.

 

Camera 3: Unless you are interested in what is going on in the trees back there, I'd probably consider pointing the camera a little further down - so that a person standing in front of the shed is *only just* in shot - then you'll get to see what's just below the camera. The night shot appears to have no IR at all - is it supposed to have IR? Built-in or external?

 

Camera 5: Good if you want to see *if* someone is messing with the cars, or if a passing car has stopped on the road - but the angle is too high for a good person ID, and too far from the road for a good car ID. I'd probably lower the camera mount down to provide a better shot of a person's face. Or, depending on how many channels you have, maybe even leave it there but have two additional cameras, on for each car, allowing much closer shot. Don't overestimate your ability to ID a person in that shot - you *may* be able to recognise someone you *know*, but it's going to be almost useless for identifying someone you don't know.

 

 

 

'Overall' shots showing a wide area are a vital part of your CCTV system, but unless you have something closer, and with enough detail to identify a stranger, then all your CCTV will give you is an action replay of the crime. These are the "What did they do" shots. You need to add the "Who did it" shot.

 

 

 

I have spent many hours on youtube reviewing all of the CCTV footage they put out there, and I try to learn from their mistakes. Too many videos out there shwoing criminals that simply cannot be identified. The 3 biggest culprits seem to be:

 

1) The criminal appeared in a part of the shot that is too far away from the camera for identification... Either because of poor camera placement / lens selection, or a failure to correctly anticipate what a criminal would be interested in.

 

2) The camera angle is too high and all you see if the top of the criminal's head. I've never seen a wanted poster that said "Have you seen this Bald Spot". My face-ID cameras, one at each door, are all at about shoulder-height. The drawback is they can be tampered with, but the cameras all cross - if you tamper with one you will be caught by another.

 

3) Lighting... The criminal is backlit in a bright doorway, or appears in shot after hours and there was not enough planning for light, and it's not enough lighting to get a good ID. Or a too-powerful IR is used and the subject's face is washed out.

 

(and I'm guilty of all fo these sins myself... Like I said, I'm not an expert, still learning myself...)

[ak357 0]

I'm not an expert, just a home user..

 

 

 

'Overall' shots showing a wide area are a vital part of your CCTV system, but unless you have something closer, and with enough detail to identify a stranger, then all your CCTV will give you is an action replay of the crime. These are the "What did they do" shots. You need to add the "Who did it" shot.

 

 

 

1) The criminal appeared in a part of the shot that is too far away from the camera for identification... Either because of poor camera placement / lens selection, or a failure to correctly anticipate what a criminal would be interested in.

 

2) The camera angle is too high and all you see if the top of the criminal's head. I've never seen a wanted poster that said "Have you seen this Bald Spot". My face-ID cameras, one at each door, are all at about shoulder-height. The drawback is they can be tampered with, but the cameras all cross - if you tamper with one you will be caught by another.

 

 

 

(and I'm guilty of all fo these sins myself... Like I said, I'm not an expert, still learning myself...)

 

not bad analysis Scruit, not bad !

what u call "What did they do" shots". I call "lots of nothing shots"

That why I start to do more megapix

as u know cctv cam and current capture cards simply don't have enough "pixels"

to capture what customer want

 

I am trying to follow "60-80 pix rule"

meaning if license plate or face is about 60-80 pixels wide

we have ok ID

now take 720 pix horizontal and divide by 70 = ~ 10 feet

if it is less then 60-80 pixels it become "lots of nothing shots" or just good general view

and that all

hope u can see my point

[Rebco 0]

I Have to agree with ak357,

My hats off to you Scruit very good analysis. I learn new things here everyday...

[WizCam 0]

Those are observations I've made myself. I try to set up more covert hi res facial ID cameras. I call it the "Uh Oh" cam because one of my installs actually caught an intruder at my friend's garage. It had no audio ... but you could read the guy's lips .... he said "Uh Oh" after he took many pains to avoid detection from the cameras (including two decoys) only to realize he had been caught by my hi res ID cam. After that he tried to disable it to no avail .. which only caught a better closeup.

 

Follow up law enforcement ... he only got pinched for trespassing and breaking and entering. He took off without taking anything ... and actually got recognized by the investigating officer at home depot when he was off duty. Go figure. Trial still pending last I heard.

 

Bottom line .... I've learned that just blanketing an area with cameras doesn't equal surveillance. As was mentioned above ... you can only see the how it was done ... not the who ... unless you set up the cams to get facial ID. What a client may think requires only 3 or 4 cams might actually require 5 or 6. It all depends on the property. I go into every job scoping with an open mind and reference my past experiences.

[cctothetv 0]

It really is a disservice to consumers that mass merchandisers and companies like Q-see and Swan (who are vendors of mass merchandisers) market their products as if they actually would protect your valuables or prosecute a perp. Actually, it is a disservice to many aspects of a community, from the consumer, to the professional installer, and law enforcement. It would definitely be in your best interest to replace the entire system and have it professionally installed by a CCTV expert. This will avoid wasted time in court or with police.

[way2evil 0]

Wow, just saw all the replies. Here are more pics for you guys. Each one is a picture of a camera (where it is located) and some have pics of the cameras "view". I also included a picture of a day time shot of all the cameras. Some of the cameras you can not see because they are not there. We are doing work on the house and some of them have been removed. On the screen shot of all the cameras, disregard the "channel labels." A few of them are misaligned as well. Thanks again for everyones advice. You can see the pics here

 

http://way2evil.com/cctv/

[RickA 0]

From what you can see the cameras all look like IR bullet with fixed lenses, and I would guess that none were setup by setting any of the dip switches. Need to check for a pro in your area to do it right.

[kmb997 0]

What is a dip switch?

[Rebco 0]

From what i see the alarm guy should stick to doing alarms but thats my stupid opinion. With respect to the cameras the look like there are nuvico 36 ir 12 volt fixed lens camera, But there might be 2 different cameras there from the pictures. I am pretty sure they don't have dip switches but i could be wrong (It's known to happen every now and then) Would it be to much to ask for a breakdown of what you got. Cameras and DVR (specs). I like the neighborhood and a nice house.

 

What is a dip switch?

 

Most good cameras come with little switches that you set with all different settings.

[RickA 0]

Usually a set of switches to select AGC, Backlight, DNR, etc,,,, Most of these are on the cb and you have to remove the barrel to get to them.

[way2evil 0]

From what i see the alarm guy should stick to doing alarms but thats my stupid opinion. With respect to the cameras the look like there are nuvico 36 ir 12 volt fixed lens camera, But there might be 2 different cameras there from the pictures. I am pretty sure they don't have dip switches but i could be wrong (It's known to happen every now and then) Would it be to much to ask for a breakdown of what you got. Cameras and DVR (specs). I like the neighborhood and a nice house.

 

What is a dip switch?

 

Most good cameras come with little switches that you set with all different settings.

thanks for the info and my house the DVR is a tempest 8000 series. it is a 16 channel dvr with a 250g HDD. I will get some specs on the cameras for you later. They are all the same except the one on the front door.

[Lolo Wolf 0]

DSC_0460.jpg is siamese laying close over a run of what looks to me to be some 12awg, may cause some pic issues...also a good idea to check and make sure no fasteners stabbed any of your cam cabling often there is a tendency of blind nailing when working on exisiting construction with addition work, curious whats that PVC for above the header?

[way2evil 0]

DSC_0460.jpg is siamese laying close over a run of what looks to me to be some 12awg, may cause some pic issues...also a good idea to check and make sure no fasteners stabbed any of your cam cabling often there is a tendency of blind nailing when working on exisiting construction with addition work, curious whats that PVC for above the header?

 

the pvc is for the air conditioner's condenser. water runs through it when the overflow tray is full

[way2evil 0]

From what i see the alarm guy should stick to doing alarms but thats my stupid opinion.

 

lol, he cant even get that right