Power and Video for Long Range Run

[AMTTL70 0]

I recently just purchased some cameras to monitor an area at my home that is 300ft away. The power requirements for each camera is 24vac 40VA (Nuvico CI-Z10-L & CI-Z30-L). Here are my questions:

 

What kind of power supply would I need to make a 300ft run and maintain the power requirements for the cameras? Or would I have to run 110volts to the camera pole and mount an outdoor power supply on the pole?

 

Since I have 3 cameras, can I pull, for the video, 1 cat5 cable, use baluns and 3 pairs of the cat5 to get the video signal?

 

For the RS-485, will it transmit that far?

 

Thanks in advance for all of your help!!!!!

[VST_Man 1]

use CAT5, baluns, and 24VAC.

 

you'll need (2) CAT5 cables run. One for power and the other for camera's video.

 

RS485? what is that for? control of? data signal/control signals are good for that distance via single CAT5 pair.

[AMTTL70 0]

So the 24vac power supply will work even on that long of a run? Will there not be any substantial voltage drop?

[survtech 0]

For 300' at 24VAC, 40VA you will need at least 14/2 power cable or equivalent for each camera. Here is a link to Pelco's 24VAC wire gauge chart: ftp://www.pelco.com/ServiceBulletinsTechTips/TechTips/5973024.PDF

 

Cat-5 will not work for your power. You would need at least 10 strands (times 2) of 24 gauge wire for each camera's power. Essentially, that means you would need more than one Cat-5 4-pair for each leg of the power per camera. See the calculator that tells you the result of combining 2 or more wires here: http://home.hiwaay.net/~rgs/awgcalculator.html

 

Here is a link to a wire length calculator:

http://www.video-insight.com/Support/Tools/Wire-Length-Calculator.aspx

 

Cat-5 passive-passive (baluns) video should have no trouble running that distance. RS-485 on UTP (Cat-3 or Cat-5) can carry control signals up to 4000'.

[AMTTL70 0]

Any brand of balun that you prefer? By the way, what is the difference between an active and passive balun? Just curious.

[Lolo Wolf 0]

Those Nuvico cams have Fan/heater as well the RS-485 for control, are the cams to be placed together viewing alternate views? You mention outdoor on pole, if so take into consideration the environmental conditions in determining your choice of cable and or cat5. If you go with rg59 use a outdoor rated cable as well for your cat, If you choose to power the 40VA X2 you may want to look into a single box PS supply that can handle both and if the location has accessible power get a outdoor rated supply box and shorten your pwr run to each cam. Follow safe wire practice and special attention working with outdoor electrical, depth of cable, trenching, exsiting utilities, conduit if you choose etc.. also make sure your pole is mechanicaly, sound there are several factors with electrical devices (whether cams or lights, all voltage) placed on poles. You may want to pull a spare when working with outdoor cable or cat for distances over 100ft in the event of a failure or upgrade (additional cams) In so far as baluns (brands) that subject has been written about many times on the forum, lots of differnt views you can read through the past posts, I use Nitek and often use the VH439 mini HUB for DVR connects and have used NVT as well Muxlab with good results even used some cheap OEM ground loop blocking Baluns that have performed well. Although I prefer to use RG59 for most of my work which is outdoor. The active balun is for use in extended distance to lessen loss as it is powered, the standard balun is not. Go to any of the Balun websites Nitek, Muxlab or NVT and have a good read on the Faqs pertaing to Balun usage and their claims (specs)

[VST_Man 1]

I am running 24VAC beyond 800ft. and it works fine. the second CAT5 above is for the power and doubling up of the wires.

 

300ft.? that's a no biggie. I actually run 12VDC that distance also but found out 24VAC is better than at that distance.

 

wire charts are a scientific guage.....and if you can engineer it to that, fine. But, it does not mean it don't work outside those parameters.

 

I listened to "it's gotta be this and that" my entire career and basically discovered truth in doing it. Not that you are right or wrong, you can't just say it won't work when it does.

[survtech 0]

I am running 24VAC beyond 800ft. and it works fine. the second CAT5 above is for the power and doubling up of the wires.

 

300ft.? that's a no biggie. I actually run 12VDC that distance also but found out 24VAC is better than at that distance.

At what current draw? Fixed cameras usually draw in the neighborhood of 5 to 7 VA. At that current draw, 20 gauge can be run at least 600' and 18 gauge at least 900'.

 

It reminds me of a casino I visited in Northern California. Their techs complained to me that they had a Pelco outdoor PTZ that worked fine during the day and during the summer, but in winter it would shut off every night and sometimes during the day.

 

It turns out they were running 18/2 power cable approximately 300', which worked until the heater kicked on which dragged the voltage down to the point that the electronics shut off. This would be a similar situation and it is better to be safe than sorry.

 

Any brand of balun that you prefer? By the way, what is the difference between an active and passive balun? Just curious.

Most passive baluns work fine at distances up to 500' and often even further. We have used them up to 1000'. We have used many brands; with equal results - Vigitron, NVT, GVI and a few others. We just received two from Videobaluns Unlimited that we are going to try out in place of some Pelco active receivers for cameras that are up to 1200' away.

 

UPDATE: The Videobaluns Unlimited passive baluns are no better at long distances than others we have tried.

 

Active receivers cost more but can correct the losses for long cable runs.

[Lolo Wolf 0]

Two of my last PTZ installs running blower/fan/heater with added dual UF-100 IR powered by a single outdoor ALTRONIX WPTV244300UL, all power run approx. 450ft on 18/2 with a 220ft run to mains dedicated (20amp 12awg) All video on rg59 and data cat5....no problems, better to over size and spec when pulling power (outdoor trenching etc.) in the event of a future upgrade and not have to revisit. Ive seen DIY wall warts plugged into garages and even spliced into patio lighting, runs better than 200ft to cams outdoor 24/12 volt with no consideration to wire gauge or protection and proper outdoor placement and then complain or ask why their cams dont work or breakers keep tripping. Would you want a HVAC installer to undersze a system for your space or use minimal requirements, better to size proper and address all voltage issues safely. No matter what gauge wire used if it isnt used within its spec and placed correct regarding outdoor, install it is subject to failure.

[Lolo Wolf 0]

Note:The UF-100s are powered by extreme ps supply which share the same 20 amp circuit as the altronix

[AMTTL70 0]

Okay, let me make sure that I am straight on this. At 300ft, I am fine with running 14 guage wire to the cams and use a 24vac power supply without the threat of a substantial voltage drop. I can also use cat5 with baluns for the video. Since I have 3 cams, I can pull 1 cat5 cable and use three of the pairs along with the baluns.

[cachecreekcctv 0]

Hope the pics come through, but one is my normal 24v Siemens transformer for most of my panel builds, and one pic is of my new transformer, 6 amps, for a special project that includes a couple of Vicon PT units, running on 24vac, quite a distance from a home in the Mountains. Not too hard to build your own enclosures and power supplies. A little more time consuming, but when I am done I know they are built right, and with more than enough power to run anything I come across.

[survtech 0]

Okay, let me make sure that I am straight on this. At 300ft, I am fine with running 14 guage wire to the cams and use a 24vac power supply without the threat of a substantial voltage drop. I can also use cat5 with baluns for the video. Since I have 3 cams, I can pull 1 cat5 cable and use three of the pairs along with the baluns.

Yes, that should work.

 

If you don't want to build your own power supply, you can buy one. We use Altronix and ARM power supplies with no problem. Just make certain it is rated to handle at least 2 amps per output. Also, if there is a problem with too much voltage drop, say when the heaters kick on, some power supplies allow you to kick up the supply voltage to 28 volts.

 

You can use one pair of Cat-5 for video and one for control.

[AMTTL70 0]

Hey guys I really appreciate all of your input! I forgot one thing though. Where does the communication cable for the cameras hook to the DVR? I bought a Nuvico DV3 series.

[survtech 0]

You connect the control cable to the RS-422 connector on the back of the DVR. Connect the "+" on the camera to the "T+" on the DVR and the "-" on the camera to the "T-" on the DVR. You shouldn't need to use the "R+" and "R-" on the DVR. You can daisy-chain the control cable between cameras if they are not too far away from each other or use something like a Kalatel KTD-83 or a Pelco CDU-T to split the control signal.