I'm a newbie to CCTV - Distance? Cat5 For My Reptile Farm

[drawoh 0]

I'm a newbie to CCTV. I just found this forum and hope someone can help me. I am an American living in Central America and the people here doing video security systems in this country are not very technically oriented when it comes to network camera installations. I am new at this and I am doing a network video security installation on a large reptile farm that I own here .

 

The site is 17 acres and is about 1000 meters long. I am going to install 15 low end outdoor PTZ cameras and 2 or 3 higher end PTZ cameras using the Milestone XProtect Professional video system. I have already bought one Sony SNC-RZ30 with a videolarm dome housing that I am going to install to see how good it is.

 

I still am trying to decide on either the Toshiba IKWB15A JPEG or the Panasonic Bbhcm531a Mpeg-4 Cameras for the low end cameras. Any input on which camera to use would also be helpful. It has to be an outside network camera with Pan and Tilt.

 

My main problem is this - If Cat5e or Cat6 has a max distance of 100 meters can I install 10 switches 100 meters (each one feeding the next) apart to cover the entire 1000 meter length of the property? This would work out good for me because I need to connect network cameras about every 100 meters.

 

I am open to suggestions if someone could suggest a better way to connect the cameras to my 1000 meter path like fiber, DSL, etc.

 

I was also looking at the Highwire Connect for Ethernet over Coax system but it would get very expensive with 10 (20 pair of Highwire plus 10 switches) conecting stations.

 

I was also thinking to use 10/100Mbps/1000Mbps switchs and use them in the 100Mbps mode. Not sure if this is a good idea but someone told me that I would better results using 1000Mbps switches at long distances in the 100Mbps mode.

 

1. Can I use 10 swithces each one feeding the next at 100 meters?

2. Will I get better performance using the 1000mbps at 100mbps?

3. Should I use Cat5e or Cat6 direct burial cable?

4. I cannot find anywhere in the specs of the Toshiba IKWB15A JPEG or the Panasonic Bbhcm531a cameras that tells me if the cameras are IR sensitive. Does anyone know if I can use IR illuminators with either if these two cameras and which of these two outside cameras is the better choice?

5. Any suggestions on an outside dome camera with PTZ for my higher end network cameras with at least 25X optical zoom?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

[surveillancePackages 0]

I think you should go with Fiber for the amount of area and the throughput that will be needed. Estimate the costs of cabling and the cost for a Fiber box installed in the various locations that you plan on having network equipment.

Jump off each fiber box with a single cat5 converter or for more than one camera use a Fiber to Cat5 switch.

 

Your costs will include:

Fiber cable

Fiber boxes and termination points

The switches (if there are more than one camera in the location) or Converters

 

With cat5 being stretched to capacity you will most certainly have a lot of attenuation and the throughput will be limited for transmission.

 

A good outdoor PTZ camera I would recommend is the WV-CW964 by Panasonic. The camera is weather proof , works day and night.

[CollinR 0]

Your bang:buck ratio is going to suck, bad.

 

You would be soo much better off using quality analog cameras as much as possible. The panasonic mentioned above would work well if strategically located. I would run the Cat5 as if putting switches and you may install switches and streamers there if you so choose to.

 

Right now just isn't a good time for IP based PTZs where the streamer is in the cam itself.

[user1 0]

I would consider some wireless, fairly inexpensive and can easily build an infrastructure. As long as you can get power around remote locations, you're good to go.

 

Would also stay IP, although I prefer Axis. IP PTZ's (good ones) are high-priced, but will beat any analog version out there. I wouldn't spend money on analog that you'll end up replacing in a few years.

[PMA 0]

Hi,

 

You are going to use Milestone the software of the rich that's what I use in 90% of the installations have lot's of experience with it.

 

1. Yes you can use the switches for the network, in a run or star or both. And if you use good quality ones I'm sure you can get more than 100m with them. About the backbone, don't use cat5, use cat6 or cat7 or like someone already said fiber to rj45 converter (but be prepared to spend some money in a good modulator to rj45)

2. Yes, you will get better performance using 1gb, you can stretch the video quality and run it stable without video loss. Besides, let's face it, 1gb is standard now (almost all medium end pc's come with 1gb ethernet card, and the switches are almost the same price)

3. see 1,

4. Are you sure you cant find specs? if you can't don't buy them, even low end cams should have specs

5. About the PTZ, also like someone said, go for Axis

[VST_Man 1]

I'd use CAT5 gel-filled direct bury & POE devices. I'd also consider using the Mini 10X series of PTZ's as they perform nicley for the money spent.....and they are IR sensitive. I can buy 3 10X's for the price of 1 expensive type. The chances that you'll use a 30X PTZ to view something 500ft. away is slim. But, your most likely trying to view the smaller features of creatures, right? Better placement of the 10X PTZ's can possible save you money?

 

Wireless? a bit pricey but it will fill the gap where you cannot bury cable?

 

 

Fiber? depends on how much money you have to spend and how long you are staying?

 

 

PMA......I don't agree with your comments about "streching" 1Gb CAT6. CAT6 is better based on bandwidth. The actual limitations of networking still remain the same. In my opinion, using CAT6 and then "streching" the equipment limitations is a waste of money on CAT6. If engineered properly from the start without any streching, this system will work as installed. I understand your reasoning as I use to strech also......but I learned that streching is setting yourself up for problems later on.[/url]

[PMA 0]

Hi vst,

 

When i use the term stretching, is actually within hardware limitations, specially the resolution and frame rate of the cam when it reaches the server. You probably know that sometimes you have to reduce those specs individually so you may have many cameras connected. Using cat6 or fiber and 1gb switches you may upgrade those specs dramatically (within the hardware limitations )

 

I would never recommend cat5 like you did for those distances:

 

CAT5, CAT5e, and CAT6 UTP Solid Cable Specifications Comparison

Frequency 100 MHz 100 MHz 250 MHz

Attenuation (Min. at 100 MHz)22 dB22 dB19.8 dB

# Cat 5: Currently unrecognized by TIA/EIA. Provided performance of up to 100 MHz, and was frequently used on 100 Mbit/s ethernet networks. May be unsuitable for 1000BASE-T gigabit ethernet.

# Cat 5e: Currently defined in TIA/EIA-568-B. Provides performance of up to 100 MHz, and is frequently used for both 100 Mbit/s and gigabit ethernet networks.

# Cat 6: Currently defined in TIA/EIA-568-B. It provides performance of up to 250 MHz, more than double category 5 and 5e.

# Cat 6a: Future specification for 10 Gbit/s applications.

# Cat 7: An informal name applied to ISO/IEC 11801 Class F cabling. This standard specifies four individually-shielded pairs (STP) inside an overall shield. Designed for transmission at frequencies up to 600 MHz.

 

About the POE, I agree... it will get the system price higher if you multiply it by 10 switches, but for those distances never in cat5.

 

Network wireless cams, hummmm, very last and desperate action.

[metafizx 0]

to answer your IR question, usually it is just the lens that is the blocking factor...make sure you can put in a IR lens and it should work.

 

Infrared Lenses are designed for use with Day/Night cameras. They eliminate focus shift in night mode, especially in the presence of IR lighting.

 

as for my comments on wireless, if you go this way do not skimp on equipment. wireless can suck in huge ways. do a site survey first...most likely in your case it is clear and a good candidate...but it will never be as good as direct wire.

Edited February 24, 2008 by Guest

[CollinR 0]

why not run a test since you have a decent camera already to play with, plug the Sony you have into a VCR and compare the quality vs what is gathered from it's JPEG encoder. Now run both cases inside a smallish closet attempting to use a normal remote control as an IR cannon.

 

Now you will know the quality of the camera and optics, quality of the encoding and if it is IR sensitive. Most IP cameras are not IR sensitive, very very few are.

 

What I think you will find is the highest quality result comes from the daytime using the analog connection. This is very logical as the VCR contains uncompressed video whereas the JPEG stream will have whatever compression the camera is capable of. This does allow you means of determining quality of the recording equipment.

 

My problem with IP for solutions like this right now (2008) is that the cameras are not ready yet.

 

* Cost, most of these cams cost way more then their analog equivilent.

* Very few true day/night IP cameras available.

* Lacking in encoding quality, you get MJPEG (little compression) or MPEG4 (not always compatible and the quality inferior).

 

This applies to VGA/640x480 IP cameras, megapixel makes more sence but thus none has mentioned one.

[oldblackjoe 0]

]

 

My main problem is this - If Cat5e or Cat6 has a max distance of 100 meters can I install 10 switches 100 meters (each one feeding the next) apart to cover the entire 1000 meter length of the property? This would work out good for me because I need to connect network cameras about every 100 meters.

 

I am open to suggestions if someone could suggest a better way to connect the cameras to my 1000 meter path like fiber, DSL, etc.

 

I was also looking at the Highwire Connect for Ethernet over Coax system but it would get very expensive with 10 (20 pair of Highwire plus 10 switches) conecting stations.

 

I was also thinking to use 10/100Mbps/1000Mbps switchs and use them in the 100Mbps mode. Not sure if this is a good idea but someone told me that I would better results using 1000Mbps switches at long distances in the 100Mbps mode.

 

1. Can I use 10 swithces each one feeding the next at 100 meters?

2. Will I get better performance using the 1000mbps at 100mbps?

3. Should I use Cat5e or Cat6 direct burial cable?

4. I cannot find anywhere in the specs of the Toshiba IKWB15A JPEG or the Panasonic Bbhcm531a cameras that tells me if the cameras are IR sensitive. Does anyone know if I can use IR illuminators with either if these two cameras and which of these two outside cameras is the better choice?

5. Any suggestions on an outside dome camera with PTZ for my higher end network cameras with at least 25X optical zoom?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

 

I am an IP Camera novice, but Cisco networking proficient.

Here is a proposed LAN design for your reptile farm, not knowing

the dimension of your property, will assume it is around 1000Mx500M.

 

1. deploy multimode fiber ring of six nodes, with fiber span up to 500m between two nodes. Build yourself a fiber ring along the fence line,

or form a smaller oval circle away from the fence, to prevent malicious fiber cut. Multimode fiber should be terminated with LC connectors

per SFP spec

 

 

2. procure seven (6 working, one for spare) LAN switches with at least two SFP ports, get 14 SX SFP's (1000BaseSX is multimode, 12 working, 2 for spare). Switch should be <$500, SX SFP should be <$100

 

3. once the gige ring is operational, it can survive single fiber cut or single switch failure. You could put the spare switch side by side with the one

singled homed to the WAN router. Or better yet, dual-home these two switches to the router for maximum connectivity from outside your property

 

4. hang IP PTZ camera(s) off LAN switch via cate/cat6 cables up to 100m

 

good luck,

[niall_mcconnell 0]

for your back bone i would go wireless, do a google on repeatit kit, they have relatively inexpensive base stations, coupled with a 120 sector antenna set this in the corner of your farm and then simply point the consumer units at it, as a ball park figure each con unit can support a nest of up to 4 cameras, unless your a millionaire fibre is not an option

[PPDBlue 0]

1. I'm a novice at this stuff, but my recent experiences might help you.

2. I've always known about the 100m max for Cat5. We wired a parking lot with Cat5e. I'm running an Axis 213 and an Axis 221 at over 500ft. (over 150 meters). Cameras seem to be a little more forgiving.

3. I'm ALL DONE with Axis. Had a lot of troubles with pc's with the latest IE security updates and trying to install the ActiveX from the Axis cams. Their tech support, sucked. All Done. I bought a Panasonic WV-NS202a. Cost me about $600 less and the picture is just as good in my opinion. Actually there are a few features on it I like better. The IE viewer install, no problem. And I can save it on a flash drive and install it prior to browsing to save the download from the camera.

4. Do a search for AvalanWireless. My NS202a was over 1000ft. I bought a Wireless Videolarm housing for the NS202a and it works through a concrete wall into the network room of the building! They offer 5.8ghz stuff and 900mhz. The 5ghz stuff is strictly LOS. I used 900.

5. I'd opt for a few great ptz's strategically placed, rather than a boat load of "whatever".

 

But then, I'm still new....

[thewireguys 3]

1. I'm a novice at this stuff, but my recent experiences might help you.

2. I've always known about the 100m max for Cat5. We wired a parking lot with Cat5e. I'm running an Axis 213 and an Axis 221 at over 500ft. (over 150 meters). Cameras seem to be a little more forgiving.

3. I'm ALL DONE with Axis. Had a lot of troubles with pc's with the latest IE security updates and trying to install the ActiveX from the Axis cams. Their tech support, sucked. All Done. I bought a Panasonic WV-NS202a. Cost me about $600 less and the picture is just as good in my opinion. Actually there are a few features on it I like better. The IE viewer install, no problem. And I can save it on a flash drive and install it prior to browsing to save the download from the camera.

4. Do a search for AvalanWireless. My NS202a was over 1000ft. I bought a Wireless Videolarm housing for the NS202a and it works through a concrete wall into the network room of the building! They offer 5.8ghz stuff and 900mhz. The 5ghz stuff is strictly LOS. I used 900.

5. I'd opt for a few great ptz's strategically placed, rather than a boat load of "whatever".

 

But then, I'm still new....

 

Where did you buy your AXIS cameras from? Did you ask your dealer for support?

[PPDBlue 0]

Yes. And we ended up at Axis support in Jan. At the end of that they said a new msi was coming out to resolve the active x install isuues. I went through the online support hassle again in April, referred to the Jan. trials, and ended up no where... I'm happy to be away from them AND saving money.

 

There's an old verbage a wise man told me in the 80's. Sales sells the first item. Parts and Service sell all the rest.